tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8825273392145948457.post2876588421969904262..comments2024-02-28T05:21:30.063+00:00Comments on The Suburban Bushwacker: From Fat Boy to Elk Hunter: Halal Slaughter: Questions And ControversiesThe Suburban Bushwackerhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09372690405902840131noreply@blogger.comBlogger61125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8825273392145948457.post-85737812519494825362013-04-01T01:36:24.958+01:002013-04-01T01:36:24.958+01:00My good brother ..In fact I am a Muslim and I am p...My good brother ..In fact I am a Muslim and I am proud that, and I own forum called the Association of hunting and shooting in Egypt :<br />www.egypthunter.com<br />And I will explain the image and the target of slaughter is cut artery in the neck is to ensure that filter blood and get rid of it, so that is the best in terms of scientific and during cooking, andthe man saying words translated in English as "name of God, God is great" and is provided to the slaughter sir according to Islamic law.<br />That's all there is to it.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12164761697582148682noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8825273392145948457.post-62481739854623674932012-11-15T20:05:14.233+00:002012-11-15T20:05:14.233+00:00Scotchdave, go well...Scotchdave, go well...Hippohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09468795398813061897noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8825273392145948457.post-12631253297665701002012-11-15T06:29:06.904+00:002012-11-15T06:29:06.904+00:00Hi Hippo,
It took me a few days tofind time to re...Hi Hippo,<br /><br />It took me a few days tofind time to reply to a comment. No way that I have time for a blog, though thanks for the vote of confidence.<br /><br />SBW, thanks for the space on your blog, I look forward to more articles being posted.<br /><br />DaveScotchDavehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02403829349058391719noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8825273392145948457.post-75592749471580124432012-11-12T15:24:34.449+00:002012-11-12T15:24:34.449+00:00Hippo & S Dave
You know when you've won t...Hippo & S Dave<br /><br />You know when you've won the debate when the name calling starts. So I'd just like to say Thanks guys for confirming my victory. Some much for intellectual discourse, aye! <br /><br />If you find my unwillingness to accept religious choice as an excuse for an individuals or a section of society behaviour. That is your prerogative. Just as it is for those that accept it. <br /><br />If you care to point out where I have been as SBW calls it "ungentlemanly" I'll happily apologise and offer a simpler explanation. My bet is you'll not find a single example. Subject to you having a less restricted perspective of course.....<br /><br />Until then I guess this is the last word on the subject between us. Ciao <br /><br />p.s. I still like chicken soup..........<br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8825273392145948457.post-47071204413542532972012-11-12T14:02:04.501+00:002012-11-12T14:02:04.501+00:00Scotchdave,
so let me get this correct. You are ...Scotchdave,<br /><br />so let me get this correct. You are an angry orthodox scottish jew living in the States?<br /><br />Man you've got to find the time and inclination to do a blog!<br /><br />Hippohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09468795398813061897noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8825273392145948457.post-29988865385358440712012-11-12T09:26:57.509+00:002012-11-12T09:26:57.509+00:00Hippo \ Scotch Dave
Chaps I have to reluctantly a...Hippo \ Scotch Dave<br /><br />Chaps I have to reluctantly agree, while I believe in freedom of speech and its wonderful power to expose stupidity, I also abhor ungentlemanly behaviour and suspect we are at the crossroads.<br /><br />I wanted to have a 'special part of the internet' just for, well me really, so i started this blog. There are a couple of points in this comments thread that I'll be responding to either in the the comments or in future posts; however as a new job starts today, and I have some deer stalking to tell you about before next weekends much anticipated adventure, so no promises as to when it'll be.<br /><br />SBW The Suburban Bushwackerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09372690405902840131noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8825273392145948457.post-72876779669162160102012-11-12T04:40:20.877+00:002012-11-12T04:40:20.877+00:00Anon,
I'm done feeding the troll.
Hippo,
No...Anon,<br /><br />I'm done feeding the troll.<br /><br />Hippo,<br /><br />No blog yet, I have a title picked out: An Angry Scotsman in America, but a lack of time and/or motivation as I'm not very interested in writing.<br /><br />Enjoy the goatling!<br /><br />Dave<br />ScotchDavehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02403829349058391719noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8825273392145948457.post-64768340143693129572012-11-11T21:24:12.496+00:002012-11-11T21:24:12.496+00:00@ Anonymous
"Thanks for sticking with this o...@ Anonymous<br /><br />"Thanks for sticking with this one, its been interesting."<br />I'd give it an 7 for entertainment.<br /><br />A seven, not an seven. Dickhead.<br /><br />Please SBW, this is no longer an intellectual discourse. The thread has been hi-jacked by some prick hiding behind his anonymity. Scotchdave has been more than reasonable, very informative, very polite and yet you are allowing him to be abused by someone of an intellect so mean he cannot even construct a rational argument without sniping at a man’s faith.<br /><br />Like you, I believe in the open, free speech of blogging but when it comes to approving comments like this your finger really should stray to the top right hand corner of your keyboard to the key marked ‘Delete’ and then hit it.<br />Hippohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09468795398813061897noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8825273392145948457.post-31633776902346005832012-11-11T11:29:07.874+00:002012-11-11T11:29:07.874+00:00SDave
"You're right, it affects what I k...SDave<br /><br />"You're right, it affects what I know, I know more about Jewish religious law and practices than almost any non-Jew in the world."<br />Good for you! <br />"It's your "aha!" tone that I take offense to, as if it somehow invalidates my knowledge or perspective."<br />If you feel so undermined and invalidated by a few simple truths. Might I suggest you re-evaluate your choices. <br /><br />""Unfeasible? Not really. It already happens."<br />No it doesn't, the farmer has no responsibility, the end user, for example hellmans mayonaise, carries responsibility."<br /><br />Like I said it already happens. Its just in this instance the responsibility lies with the processor. That is the way the requirement is structured. Currently there is no such requirement placed upon the meat product food chain in regards to methods of slaughter. Hence the abattoirs dumping of product into the non secular markets. <br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8825273392145948457.post-15069077074751517712012-11-11T10:24:01.086+00:002012-11-11T10:24:01.086+00:00@ Scotchdave:
Aha! Now I know why I was so impre...@ Scotchdave:<br /><br />Aha! Now I know why I was so impressed with the evident knowledge of the subject you were kind enough to share with us!<br /><br />I'll take all the bits you don't want. Just label them up with my address...<br /><br />Unless I am being really dim, it appears you don't have a blog (not one I can find anyway). Pity, I bet I wouldn't be the only one who would find it interesting.<br /><br />SBW, I think you have smashed your personal record for comments! I am going to kill my goatling, by the way. Now that Gabby is off the milk and onto roughage, she has just scoffed all my seedlings, nurtured from expensively imported seed, so death is the only option. I might even get a pair of kid gloves out of her. Marcia I suspect, having seen my murderous countenance this morning, will give her to a farmer up the road.Hippohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09468795398813061897noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8825273392145948457.post-60543493830860629682012-11-11T02:47:35.629+00:002012-11-11T02:47:35.629+00:00"Yes it does matter. You are hardly likely to..."Yes it does matter. You are hardly likely to be impartial or unbiased.The yellow star is unimportant. Having had some long involvment with the jewish community I'm pretty sure there are a good number of your faith that would like a special area of the internet all to themselves."<br /><br />You're right, it affects what I know, I know more about Jewish religious law and practices than almost any non-Jew in the world. This is because I am an orthodox Jew. It's your "aha!" tone that I take offense to, as if it somehow invalidates my knowledge or perspective.<br /><br />"Unfeasible? Not really. It already happens."<br /><br />No it doesn't, the farmer has no responsibility, the end user, for example hellmans mayonaise, carries responsibility.ScotchDavehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02403829349058391719noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8825273392145948457.post-71081041966593976332012-11-09T19:24:59.927+00:002012-11-09T19:24:59.927+00:00"I'm sure great granny would be proud tha..."I'm sure great granny would be proud that you are embracing your ethnicity at long last."<br /><br />Please. We are guests on SBW's blog. Hippohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09468795398813061897noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8825273392145948457.post-54861768455641251492012-11-09T11:54:21.053+00:002012-11-09T11:54:21.053+00:00Blimey, SBW, don't raise this issue in your lo...Blimey, SBW, don't raise this issue in your local pub!<br /><br />Perhaps it is because I live in Africa, because I hunt or because I have taken home reared animals to slaughter that I am a little bemused by the emotion evident in some of these comments.<br /><br />Humans are omnivores (God endowed us with canines and incisors as well as molars)and we have to accept that in order to survive, we need to kill.<br /><br />Naturally, this should be done as quickly as possible.<br /><br />Here in Africa, we kill goats and sheep by slicing their throats. Pigs we stick through the jugular and let them bleed out. We kill cattle by stabbing them through the spine neck high. This, skillfully done, drops them to the ground and they do not see it coming. None of these methods is instant especially if the man doing the slaughtering is under pressure and gets sloppy.<br /><br />There used to be a time in UK when local butchers could undertake small scale slaughtering. EU regulations saw the end of that resulting in the necessity to transport animals for slaughter over longer distances to be 'processed' on an industrial scale.<br /><br />I agree with any initiative that provides for the humane treatment and slaughtering of animals but I would rather have seen, since such extra regulation was deemed necessary, additional training courses offered to local butchers wishing to operate abattoirs so they could be qualified. Local vets would have provided the infrastructure required to monitor compliance. After all, vets do care about animal welfare and would have worked out far cheaper than yet another anonymous government department.<br /><br />If for whatever reason, individuals or groups are not willing to use all of the animal they slaughter then I see no reason why, unless the joints we are talking about have in some way been altered to the extent they can no longer be referred to as meat, that meat cannot be passed on to those for whom the consumption of those portions of the animal raises no objection. To do otherwise would not only be disrespectful to the dead animal, it would be a criminal waste of a resource.<br /><br />As to labeling, I am yet to be convinced that any one of the established and regulated mechanisms of slaughter stand out as evidently more humane than the rest. I do not see, therefore, any reason to distinguish between them by labeling. We already suffer enough in this world through geo-political and religious xenophobia so why add to it, especially for such diaphanous motives? Labels to distinguish where and how animals were slaughtered can only emphasize differences rather than the communality of us all being meat eaters. Also, I think we have suffered enough under the chain mail fist of central government regulation, most if it now coming from an unelected body in Europe.<br />I am reminded of the parable of the candle maker who convinced the king to ban all windows so that candles had to be burned during the day as well as at night. A regulation affecting every citizen but benefitting only a few.<br /><br />I am also reminded of a comment my superior officer made on my annual confidential report nearly thirty years ago. He stated that ‘Captain Gowans is sometimes intolerant of those less able than himself’. At first sight this appears a compliment of sorts. What he really meant, but could not commit to paper, was that I was in danger of appearing an arrogant, intolerant little shit.<br /><br />I think what I am trying to say, Mr Anonymous, is that if you are THAT concerned about where YOUR meat comes from. Shoot it yourself.<br /><br /><br />Hippohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09468795398813061897noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8825273392145948457.post-59927856355649233572012-11-08T13:58:58.937+00:002012-11-08T13:58:58.937+00:00SBW
"Anon - I wasn't impressed with your...SBW<br /><br />"Anon - I wasn't impressed with your assertion that Dave had 'admitted to being Jewish' as frankly the content of Daves DNA has knack all to do with the content of Daves head."<br /><br />Whether we like the fact or not religious ethnicity and thereby religious life style choices, do have an impact, influence, determination upon what is in someone's head. Its call indoctrination.Its an inalienable fact of life. Does it bother me that Dave is Jewish? Not in the slightest. I like chicken soup. <br /><br />I'm sure great granny would be proud that you are embracing your ethnicity at long last.<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8825273392145948457.post-47038740793403648252012-11-08T13:42:34.360+00:002012-11-08T13:42:34.360+00:00Hi Dave
"Does it matter what religion I a... Hi Dave <br /><br />"Does it matter what religion I am? Do you want a yellow star on my profile, so that you know who you are dealing with next time? Why not just make a special area of the internet for us?"<br />Yes it does matter. You are hardly likely to be impartial or unbiased.The yellow star is unimportant. Having had some long involvment with the jewish community I'm pretty sure there are a good number of your faith that would like a special area of the internet all to themselves.<br /><br />"Also, why am I somehow responsible for the practices of the kosher industry, if it were up to me, they would take the time to remove the hamstrings and sciatic nerves. We're selling some of the best cuts of meat, which I'd love to get more of." <br /><br />I am not saying you are responsible, I'm saying you do so thru choice. Two entirely different things<br /><br />"Why shouldn't people know that the meat they are eating is from the most ethical source?" <br /><br />People should know the provieance of their meat. Hence the need for legislation requiring adequate labelling through out the whole supply chain. Starting with the abattoirs.<br /><br />"It's like asking a farmer who grows GM crops, to ensure that they are labelled by the end user, unfeasible."<br /><br />Unfeasible? Not really. It already happens.<br /><br /><br /> <br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8825273392145948457.post-12855633188069678272012-11-08T10:00:41.867+00:002012-11-08T10:00:41.867+00:00Gentlemen
I will be responding to several of the ...Gentlemen<br /><br />I will be responding to several of the points raised in the last few comments shortly, annoyingly work is preventing me from giving adequate time to blogging at the moment. <br /><br />Anon - I wasn't impressed with your assertion that Dave had 'admitted to being Jewish' as frankly the content of Daves DNA has knack all to do with the content of Daves head. <br /><br />For the record I may share some DNA with Dave, but as this possibility was only put to me when I was already 43 I cant say its been a factor in my upbringing and frankly I've got better uses for the $300 it would take to have a DNA profile to confirm my great grandmother's genetic heritage. Also as my Bro pointed out i'd only use such a confirmation to start arguments so perhaps the money would be betteer put towards a new bow hunting rig.<br /><br />play nice<br />SBWThe Suburban Bushwackerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09372690405902840131noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8825273392145948457.post-57457295313923445702012-11-08T05:52:27.013+00:002012-11-08T05:52:27.013+00:00Hi Anon,
Does it matter what religion I am? Do y...Hi Anon,<br /><br />Does it matter what religion I am? Do you want a yellow star on my profile, so that you know who you are dealing with next time? Why not just make a special area of the internet for us?<br /><br />Also, why am I somehow responsible for the practices of the kosher industry, if it were up to me, they would take the time to remove the hamstrings and sciatic nerves. We're selling some of the best cuts of meat, which I'd love to get more of.<br /><br />Regarding the leftover animal parts, I don't know who exactly the parts are sold to. If you ask the companies they might be able to help. Your issue is with the people buying the hindquarters and relabeling, not the suppliers, you should talk to them and demand labeling. Why shouldn't people know that the meat they are eating is from the most ethical source?<br /><br />It's like asking a farmer who grows GM crops, to ensure that they are labelled by the end user, unfeasible.<br /><br />DaveScotchDavehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02403829349058391719noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8825273392145948457.post-55546308554442816362012-11-07T20:28:37.501+00:002012-11-07T20:28:37.501+00:00Fredico
I suppose it all boils down to whether yo...Fredico<br /><br />I suppose it all boils down to whether you agree with SBW following premise<br /><br />"The way for most food animals in the western world is, er, slightly different. It's entirely acceptable to have the animal severely traumatised, then stunned, before being skinned alive-ish. There is little time for compassion in industrialised animal husbandry."<br /> I don't. I don't believe that an animal is "severely traumatised" or that they are "skinned alive-ish" whatever "alive-ish" is.<br /> <br /><br />"My point being, the proper comparison would be between an industrial abattoir that practices killing through captive bolt vs one that uses halal methods. Only then we could make a fair assessment of the relative level of animal welfare in either case."<br /><br />In the UK I don't believe there are any industrial scale slaughter establishment that are exclusively Halal or Kosher. They slaughter using all of the allowed methods subject to demand. The environment and the initial live handling processes are the same regardless. Only the mumbo jumbo changes.<br /><br />"I could reply point by point to your latest, but to be fair I get the feeling you don't seem to that keen discussing these issues (as opposed to disagreen with me), so I will thank SBW for the space he gave me and leave it at that."<br /><br />Your feelings are incorrect.I'm very happy discussing these issues. It just happens that I disagree with you. That life, C'est la guerre. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8825273392145948457.post-63753382491083357492012-11-07T20:13:28.388+00:002012-11-07T20:13:28.388+00:00Scotch Dave
Its good to see you have at last laid ...Scotch Dave<br />Its good to see you have at last laid your cards on the table and admitted to being Jewish.<br /><br />"What would you prefer us to do with the hindquarters of the animals, and the organs we can't eat. Would it be more morally acceptable to you for us to put them in the rubbish bin?<br /><br />The fact is, there are leftovers we can't eat, so why not sell them to someone who can make use of them?"<br /><br />If you read the last paragraph of my last comment. You'll see what I suggest.<br /><br />That you choose to dump the non allowed parts of a kosher slaughtered carcase into the non kosher market without adequate labelling is the main "bone " of contention with the non kosher consumer. <br /><br />Jews and Muslims choose to slaughter in a certain manner. Jews then select elements of the carcase thru choice. Should non kosher and Halal consumers not be offered the same consideration. Thru being made aware of the slaughter process by which the animal died thru adequate labelling? Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8825273392145948457.post-12900362126640627032012-11-07T16:38:02.470+00:002012-11-07T16:38:02.470+00:00Anon, given these premises (that is, what SBW post...Anon, given these premises (that is, what SBW posted in the first place):<br /><br />"The way for most food animals in the western world is, er, slightly different. It's entirely acceptable to have the animal severely traumatised, then stunned, before being skinned alive-ish. There is little time for compassion in industrialised animal husbandry. There is another method, one that people have heard of, disapprove of, yet seem to know little about. The intersection between wilful ignorance and distain has proved to be an interesting hunting ground in the past, so I thought I'd shine a flashlight into the chasm of my own ignorance and learn a little more about how other cultures relate to their food. Starting with Islam."<br /><br />I pointed out that what was shown in the videos going with the post is not necessarily relevant with the post, because SBW was comparing *industrial abattoir practices* with the hala slaughter practiced by a small scale vanture. My point being, the proper comparison would be between an industrial abattoir that practices killing through captive bolt vs one that uses halal methods. Only then we could make a fair assessment of the relative level of animal welfare in either case. <br /><br />I could reply point by point to your latest, but to be fair I get the feeling you don't seem to that keen discussing these issues (as opposed to disagreen with me), so I will thank SBW for the space he gave me and leave it at that.<br />Federicohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05874499919124129777noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8825273392145948457.post-82880508701176144322012-11-06T13:00:10.863+00:002012-11-06T13:00:10.863+00:00Err, I posted a comment, but I didn't get the ...Err, I posted a comment, but I didn't get the usual "your comment is awaiting moderation message", so I'll repost.<br /><br />Anon,<br /><br />What would you prefer us to do with the hindquarters of the animals, and the organs we can't eat. Would it be more morally acceptable to you for us to put them in the rubbish bin?<br /><br />The fact is, there are leftovers we can't eat, so why not sell them to someone who can make use of them?<br /><br />DaveScotchDavehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02403829349058391719noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8825273392145948457.post-49928049459794785112012-11-06T12:57:19.658+00:002012-11-06T12:57:19.658+00:00Anon,
So, what would you prefer us to do with the...Anon,<br /><br />So, what would you prefer us to do with the parts that can't be used but are still perfectly edible? Would it be more morally acceptable to you if we were to throw them in the rubbish bin?<br /><br />The fact is, the hindquarters and non kosher organs have to go somewhere, so why not sell them to people who will use them?<br /><br />DaveScotchDavehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02403829349058391719noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8825273392145948457.post-21005218846672361292012-11-06T12:32:21.818+00:002012-11-06T12:32:21.818+00:00Q1)the question seems to be, is the prevalence of ...Q1)the question seems to be, is the prevalence of errors in killing animals (which would be a failure to kill humanely) higher in industrial abattoirs versus small scale abattoirs? in particular, what is the error rate for the chaps in the video? in the most simple terms, would halal slaughter decrease the error rate in industrial settings?<br />A1)I'm sure the FSA has figures relating to the killing efficiency of industrial slaughter operations here in the UK. What that efficiency rate is elsewhere in the world your guess is as good as anyone's. I see no relevance in the rest of the question.<br /><br />Q2)do industrial abattoirs have other issues of welfare outside humane slaughter, not encountered by small abattoirs (cattle prods, etc)?<br />A2)Here in the UK no.What goes on in the rest of the world is a matter of conjecture. <br /><br />Q3) you, and nobody else here has any way of saying whether the chaps in the video (or in any other small abattoir) are under economic strain, or not, whatever the reason, and thus cannot say whether the practice they show in the video (which is damn far from industrial slaughter in terms of animals killed per unit of time) is a standard procedure or not.<br />A3) Reality dictates that economics plays a significant part in any business. IIRC they operate as a commercial slaughtering operation. Quid pro quo commercial economic pressure.<br /><br />"So, back to my original comment: apples and oranges. What these guys do is irrelevant to the issue: is practice X more or less humane in the setting of industrial abattoirs, because they are NOT in that setting. SWB explicitly raised the issue of industrial animal farming and slaughtering in case people forgot."<br />Your point being??<br /><br />"Finally, a couple more pointer about the vid: what about restraining and killing animals bigger than goats and sheep? are they calmed down as effectively as goats? How does that gig play out? or are they simply not slaughtered there?"<br />I doubt they would get away with a similar circus trick with larger sized anaimals<br /><br />"Additionally, the slaughtering room has a metal grill flooring (for practical reasons I presume). Because animals do not willing walk over grills (cattle grids anyone?), forcing an animal to walk in a roo with a grill for pavement might be seen as drop in welfare standards."<br /><br />Grills are not like cattle grids. End of.<br /><br />"Finally, because this is a hunting blog, there are many more relevant things to say about kosher and halal slaughter -- though I will not hog more space unless SBW is happy for me to go on."<br /><br />Personally I don't have a problem with Halal or Kosher slaughter in the commercial context. I know there are many that do. I do have a problem with the routine commercial dumping of Kosher/Halal slaughtered product into the non kosher/halal market without adequate labelling. I believe that the consumer should be informed. I believe that all retailers and food providers should be able to provide a provenance for the products they sell. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8825273392145948457.post-61602647956239311092012-11-04T15:15:08.953+00:002012-11-04T15:15:08.953+00:00Anonymous:
"Mistakes happen regardless of th...Anonymous:<br /><br />"Mistakes happen regardless of the situation, location,circumstance in whch the act takes place. To err is human is it not. Time pressure is there in what ever environment you happen tp find yourself. Time=profit, profit=sustainability, sustainability=longevity of employment. etc etc. We would all like to think that small is all warm and cosy, the reality is they are all under considerable commercial pressure to get the job done."<br /><br />to make it clear:<br /><br />1) the question seems to be, is the prevalence of errors in killing animals (which would be a failure to kill humanely) higher in industrial abattoirs versus small scale abattoirs? in particular, what is the error rate for the chaps in the video? in the most simple terms, would halal slaughter decrease the error rate in industrial settings?<br /><br />2) do industrial abattoirs have other issues of welfare outside humane slaughter, not encountered by small abattoirs (cattle prods, etc)?<br /><br />3) you, and nobody else here has any way of saying whether the chaps in the video (or in any other small abattoir) are under economic strain, or not, whatever the reason, and thus cannot say whether the practice they show in the video (which is damn far from industrial slaughter in terms of animals killed per unit of time) is a standard procedure or not. <br /><br />So, back to my original comment: apples and oranges. What these guys do is irrelevant to the issue: is practice X more or less humane in the setting of industrial abattoirs, because they are NOT in that setting. SWB explicitly raised the issue of industrial animal farming and slaughtering in case people forgot.<br /><br />My comment about surgical operations has been misunderstood, though I am to blame for the analogy. The issue in my example is not how the patient would feel, is how much stress, and how greater the chance of error *for the surgeon*. My bad.<br /><br />Finally, a couple more pointer about the vid: what about restraining and killing animals bigger than goats and sheep? are they calmed down as effectively as goats? How does that gig play out? or are they simply not slaughtered there? <br /><br />Additionally, the slaughtering room has a metal grill flooring (for practical reasons I presume). Because animals do not willing walk over grills (cattle grids anyone?), forcing an animal to walk in a roo with a grill for pavement might be seen as drop in welfare standards.<br /><br />Finally, because this is a hunting blog, there are many more relevant things to say about kosher and halal slaughter -- though I will not hog more space unless SBW is happy for me to go on.Federicohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05874499919124129777noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8825273392145948457.post-18147812122615524782012-11-02T17:50:19.820+00:002012-11-02T17:50:19.820+00:00Damn interesting topic and comments, SBW...Damn interesting topic and comments, SBW...Chad Lovehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13219295562957353591noreply@blogger.com